Friday, September 15, 2006

Pope in "same league as Hitler and Mussolini"

Ireland Online:
Turkey’s ruling Islamic-rooted party joined a wave of criticism of Pope Benedict XVI today, saying he would go down in history in the same league as leaders like Hitler and Mussolini for remarks he made on Islam.

The comments by Salih Kapusuz, a deputy leader of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s party, came a day after Turkey’s top cleric asked Benedict to take back recent remarks, escalating tensions before the pontiff’s November visit.

The Pope made his remarks on Islam in a speech in which he quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

“The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war,” the Pope said.

“He said, I quote, ’Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,”’ he quoted the emperor as saying.

Benedict added, “I quote,” twice before pronouncing the phrases on Islam and described them as “brusque,” while neither explicitly agreeing with nor repudiating them.
Meanwhile, following Friday prayers in Kashmir...

Muslim students burn an effigy of Pope Benedict XVI at a protest rally in Allahabad, India, Friday, Sept. 15, 2006.

Update 3pm. From the Pope's speech (pdf - hat tip Rexie):
It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures.
For the response to that invitation, see above.

Update 3.25pm. You couldn't make it up (hat tip Ross Maartin and Clematis):
"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence" - Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam.


Anonymous Verity said...

Oh, keep digging,Salih Kapusuz and confreres. Please, please, please keep digging!

2:16 pm  
Blogger Man in a shed said...

Islam doesn't seem to make these fellows very happy people. I quoted a more reasoned German Muslim on my Blog - but it seems to have developed a fatal technical fault. Hopefully its just technical.

The great problem with Islam is that much of it now won't engage in any debate, and seems to want to imprison its adherents without letting them hear anything other than its own chanting. The Emperor's statement seemed quite reasoned to me, given his experience at the time - and it deserved an answer, not the usual head banging response. Something on the lines of its not true because .....fill in as appropriate ( As Mr Mayek in Germany did ).

2:52 pm  
Blogger rexie said...

See for yourself what a ranting islamophobe Pope Benedict is -

It is understandable though that muslims should expect the head of the catholic church to take a positive view of their religion. Muslim religious leaders are always embracing other faiths.

2:53 pm  
Blogger permanentexpat said...

Well, it IS Islam, you know.
What's surprizing?

2:56 pm  
Anonymous Ross Maartin said...

I think this quote sums up the situation perfectly:

"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence,"

Tasnim Aslam
Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokeswoman

3:22 pm  
Anonymous Clematis Fraudster said...

Yes, that rant by the Pope was quite something - Sir Alex Ferguson must read that speech and feel hopelessly inadequate.

Quote of the day:

"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.

I imagine these photos were taken after Friday prayers - if that is so, one can only conclude that the Pope isn't the only one who has been 'encouraging' violence.

3:27 pm  
Anonymous Clematis Fraudster said...

LOL! Snap!

3:27 pm  
Blogger Peter Risdon said...

I've agreed to debate this controversy on Radio 5 Live tomorrow (Saturday) evening at about 8:30pm with an as yet unnamed protagonist.

3:47 pm  
Anonymous JuliaM said...

"Muslim students burn an effigy of Pope Benedict XVI at a protest rally in Allahabad, India, Friday, Sept. 15, 2006."

And just where do you get one of those on a Friday night (at short notice) in Allahbad....?

5:24 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Juliam - Ha ha! Good point!

5:51 pm  
Blogger rexie said...

From that Allahabad photo it looks like one "angry" muslim is learning the hard way that sandals are not ideal wear for burning papal effigies.

6:22 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Woo-hooooo! Pope Rage is off and running! The good citizens of Srinigar in the Himalayan state of Kashmir also came by an effigy of Pope Benedict after Friday "prayers" (what goes on at these "prayers, anyway?) and burnt it. The British muslims, as mouthy as ever, have surged in with opinions.

My guess, this is going to be as big as Motoon Rage. Quite a divertisement for the autumn blahs.

6:49 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

yeah - saw my first Pope effigy burning on C4 news tonight.

whats the betting for Saturday activities?

A sudden outbreak of Vatican flags in Gaza, ready for burning?

9:13 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

Here's a link to the Pope's speech - its not a PDF, just a webpage...

be prepared to be shocked -its packed full of "string the Muslims up", and "lets wipe mecca off the map"... oh wait. no. maybe not.

9:15 pm  
Anonymous Clematis Fraudster said...

Isn't that Green Helmet Guy in one of those photos?

Expect a demo in Trafaglar Square tomorrow and maybe one or two The Pope Must Die posters. Guest speakers will include Kate Hudson of CND, Andrew Murray of The Stop the War Coalition, Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn, Anjem Choudhary...the usual slogans...burkas all over the place...Palestinian flags...the same old same old...

...oh fuck it. Why do they bother? Why don't they go and watch Luton Town or go shopping like normal people?

9:56 pm  
Blogger Mr Eugenides said...

Charles Martel:

Come to Glasgow next Saturday, there's a Rangers-Celtic game on and I'm sure we can arrange a burning of the Pope in effigy then.


Yussuf Al-Qaradawi's rather touching plea for tolerance and peace is carried on the BBC's "reaction in quotes" page; no mention, naturally, that this is the same Yussuf Al-Qaradawi who has graciously confirmed that women are permitted to remove the hijab when carrying out martyrdom operations in Palestine.

10:09 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Could these deadhead demonstrators get Tommy Tune, or Wayne Sleep, in to come up with some fresh choreography? I am so sick of looking at their bearded shouty faces and the raised arm pointing up outrage: ONE! TWO! THREE! Over and over and over again. It's worse than Carmen Burana.

Instead of Carmen Burana, maybe we could get a little Carmen Miranda and liven up the show a bit? Every last one of these nitwits would look better with a fruit basket on his head, wearing platform shoes and wiggling around to the Cucaracha.

And we need a lyricist to liven up all that constant whining. It should have three syllables. How about, “The um-mah!” There you go. I’ve just written the libretto to a whole new show called, “Mo! The Musical!”

And would it hurt them to smile once in a while? Jeeeeeeze.

And those women! Don't get me started!

10:15 pm  
Blogger CityUnslicker said...

Imagine what would happend if a leading western figure actually did say something rude instead of trying to make a reasoned theological argument in favour of reconciliation....coudl all end in a war or something I reckon!

10:32 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

I really hate the idea of reconciliation. What's to reconcile? The islamics are bonkers believers in a Dark Ages diety and a Dark Ages way of life. The rest of us are not.

The islamics are not going to drop their primitive beliefs.

I seriously propose that islam, which comes from 1200 long years ago and has failed to develop as the years passed, and has failed to have a reformation, be reclassified as a cult. It's a very nasty kettle of fish, it believes in murder and mayhem as a lifestyle, and it is a vicious tyrant over women and homosexuals.

11:24 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just wish Mossad agents could replace the Sacred Meteorite in that kaba thing they all run round with an intense source of gamma radiation. Sterilising the cousin-fu***ng degenerates would solve all our problems.

11:42 pm  
Blogger Mr Eugenides said...

Damn this PC pussyfooting, anonymous, just tell us what you think!

1:16 am  
Anonymous Verity said...

I think they ought to start a rumour, during their sacred month of whatever, that the meteorite was curing cancer this year.

Then, when they're having one of their traditional murderous crushes, nuke it. Why is this to hard?

And Anonymous 11:42, yes, they really do have to stop having incestuous sex because it is costing the Western world - which invented everything - a lot of money in birth defects. Normal Westerners don't want to pay the medical costs for the result of incest among primitives.

1:18 am  
Blogger permanentexpat said...

Some of us seem to be treating this 'new' development as a bit of a laugh (which, of course, is in the grand British tradition; I remember us laughing at Hitler.) Several millions of deaths (ours included) later we realized that our merriment was misplaced, to put it mildly. That total 'experience' brought this country to its knees & it has yet to recover fully (if ever!)
I have written, many times, that Hitler was a pussycat in comparison to the threat we now face. But for many it's a source of amusement. I am totally appalled at the insouciance that the now Septic Isle displays in the face of the direst threat it, & the rest of the civilized world, now has to deal with. The Hitler war was a close-run thing. It was such a laugh, wasn't it?

4:06 am  
Blogger permanentexpat said...

On "Little green footballs" a commenter (Cato the elder) wrote:
'Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11'

4:37 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Remember earlier this year during the Danish Cartoon Crisis, Muslim critics were saying that they didn't mind serious, scholarly critism of their religion, it was the frivolous, fun-poking they could tolerate?.

Seems that the serious, scholarly critism is now unacceptable as well.

Isn't strange how the different interpretations of how the divine Logos determines the mind of God still stirs the blood?

10:28 am  
Anonymous Penfold said...

Intolerant is the word.
These people have decided to find fault with everything said or done in the West.
Why, because they are scared of our freedoms. They recognise that the Muslim faith is backward and repressive, and that lives are worthless. Too much exposure to the western ways would result in people dumping the faith in droves.
So the Mullah's tell their lies and whip the masses up in a frenzy of religious fervour.
We should realise that we are at war with the Islamofascists and should offer no quarter, as they won't.

11:35 am  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

in response to the "nuke meccah" comments above, i'm going to wade in with my two cents.

we accept, dont we, that a lot of Pallywood is stage managed, with the active co-operation of the western media (like al-reuters and al-bbc).

then ,if we accept that premise, then we simply cant accept these "protests" as being representative of the entire Muslim population. they are obviously stage managed as well - and again , they are actively using the western media to propagate their hatred.

in other words, we can't say "pallywood" or "qanagate" one minute, and then say "nuke mecca" because of Pope rage or cartoon rage.

12:07 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Charles Martel - But the West uncovered Pallywood and exposed it in all its shame and sordidness. We were not complicit. We uncovered it and exposed it in anger.

The Muslims are complicit about the foam-flecked rubbish being shouted, screamed, shrieked in the name of their cult.

I think it is instructive, too, to look at the composition of islam. It's all the shitholes of the world. Pakistan. Yemen. Somalia. Algeria. Saudi Arabia. Etc. Places you would not live, or visit, on a bet.

2:20 pm  
Anonymous Clematis Fraudster said...

Yes, Charles. The response to the Pope's speech has been carefully manipulated by those fine men (and they are men) who are deemed to be community leaders. This is a well orchestrated campaign; a repeat of the Mo toons. Islamist groups are once again at the forefront; the mosques are rallying the faithful.

Are the media doing their bit to inflame the situation? Not at first. Initially, the speech was ignored and then it was reported reasonably neutrally.

But now? BBC interviewers are asking if this means that the Pope is supportive of George Bush's 'war on terror'; indeed, one BBC Online article states that the 'simple' reason for Muslim outrage is precisely that: the 'war on terror'. Huh? As with the Mo toons, the question of who is orchestrating this response and why seems to be irrelevant. Muslims everywhere are offended, we are told. All because of the 'war on terror'.

The finer theological details are irrelevant to the media; the media is misreporting his words and omitting the context. The Pope is, for all intents and purposes, an Islamophobe and the most important thing to the media is that he apologises.

6:39 pm  
Anonymous religion of pieces said...

Attention all patriotic UK bloggers. The Pope's comments have lifted the lid on the forces of treason, sedition, corruption and subversion within the House of Lords. See

11:51 pm  
Anonymous Steven_L said...

Maybe Nick Griffin did have a point when he descibed Islam as a 'wicked and evil' faith after all.

The more they protest, burn effigys and the more I read about it, the more I feel inclined to agree with him.

9:06 pm  
Anonymous kennedy said...

Verity & co; you have succumbed to every conceivable stereotype about Islam. How can you sum up the religion of 1.5 billion people with such predictable prejudices? Have you been to Iraq, Kuwait, Morocco, Senegal, Turkey, or any one of dozens of Islamic countries? I have not but I wouldn't dream of making absolute, sweeping generalisations about any of them without any knowledge; that's hypocrisy in anyone's book. Most news media and blogs are peddling their own agendas and there is always a glut of opinions and biases to affrim your own; this makes us feel secure. You should think for yourselves and not follow the herd.

1:09 pm  

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