Saturday, September 23, 2006

Extreme dhimmitude in Nottingham

Many will have already seen this elsewhere, but for those who haven't, here's a sickening example of cowering, bloodied-knees dhimmitude from Nottingham City Council. From This Is Nottingham:
A multi-faith cemetery will have all its graves aligned with Mecca, despite Christian burials traditionally facing east...

Ancient tradition shows they should look east in anticipation of the second coming of Jesus Christ.

But all headstones at the new £2.5m High Wood Cemetery in Bulwell will be plotted to face north-east, in line with Islamic faith...

Raza Ul Haq, Imam at the Madni Masjid Mosque, in Gladstone Street, Forest Fields, said: "It is part of our religion for dead bodies to face Mecca. It is very important.

"If for the Christians, this is part of their religion that they should be facing towards somewhere else, then we are 200% in support of them. It is our job to help and support them. If that is their requirement, then we will be supporting the Christians."

Steve Dowling, services director for Environment and Public Protection, said many graves in Nottingham often do not follow the tradition of facing east.

He said: "High Wood is a large and beautiful site with room to meet everyone's needs.

"In the first phase of development it has been agreed that the graves will face north east.

"For people of the Muslim faith this fits in with a religious requirement, but it will also ensure a tidy appearance for the site as a whole.


If anybody's interested, Steve Dowling's email address is -
steve.dowling@nottinghamcity.gov.uk
(Try to keep it civil)

Update September 26. Council U-turn.

49 Comments:

Anonymous La Boheme said...

Surely they would be laid on their back thus facing the sky and more accurately heaven if it exists!

Are Muslims buried feet first?

12:13 pm  
Anonymous JuliaM said...

"If for the Christians, this is part of their religion that they should be facing towards somewhere else, then we are 200% in support of them."

So, yet another 'initiative' taken without actually asking the people who it's supposedly for, who turn out not to want it for everyone at all.....?

"For people of the Muslim faith this fits in with a religious requirement, but it will also ensure a tidy appearance for the site as a whole."

Ah, so it's more to do with keeping things tidy for the council. Well, that makes more sense....

Who exactly do the council believe they work for, anyway..?

2:06 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

No, Juliam, that is a thought he had later to excuse himself. His main purpose was to abase himself before the alien invaders.

I will be sending him an email this weekend.

2:17 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't care which way muslims face...I'd just like to see the back of them.

3:43 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tahnkfully, I wouldn't be seen dead in Nottingham anyway, so I'm kinda safe! When I do go, I think I'll go for cremation to get me toasted and ready for my eternity in Hell as an anti-dhimmi. :)

4:22 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Anonymous 4:22 - No! As an anti-dhimmi, you get admitted to the best part of heaven! It overlooks the golf course.

4:48 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I suppose that if one has no head, thanks to Muslim terrorists, it makes no difference how the rest of the body is placed

4:58 pm  
Blogger Ghost of a flea said...

With vampires the important thing is to chop off their heads, stuff their mouths with garlic and bury them facing downwards so if they start digging after all that it will at least be in the wrong direction. If your local preference is to send them digging toward the north-east then so much the better.

6:29 pm  
Anonymous Steven_L said...

I thought Mecca was in Saudi Arabia, surely that's South-East from Nottingham, not North-East?

6:30 pm  
Anonymous Clematis Fraudster said...

Good point, Steven. If go in a straight line in a north-easterly from Nottingham, you end up in Norway, which is not (quite, yet) a Muslim country.

Perhaps someone should point this out to Imam ul Haq?

6:46 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bury me on my stomach, so that the Imans can kiss my arse.

A Yank

7:09 pm  
Anonymous Gordon said...

If Mecca is northeast of Nottingham then the UK must have drifted south a few thousand miles.
Which can't be bad though!

7:30 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Why don't you continue to concentrate on point-scoring inconsequentials and miss the big picture?

Wait until some idiot dhimmi, perhaps 20 years from now, perhaps 15, decrees that the indigenes and integrated immigrant people will have to be cremated. To make room to bury the mohammedans.

Mark my words.

7:35 pm  
Anonymous Dusty said...

Well, the cemetery here in the US where four generations of my relatives are buried the plots are oriented in all directions. Of course, that is the RC cemetery but the adjacent Protestant, mid-1800's, is the same. Same for the City ones, some of which date to the early 1800's. As for Brit cemeteries, a cursory view of photos of several of them find ones where plots are random also.

As for facing them, does any one know whether the Brits bury their dead facing the sky like we do?

Seems to me, someone is playing games with comparisions of Mulsim burial ritual they adhere to with a Christian one we don't. I say Nottingham officals should prove they followed the Christian ritual, devotedly, in the first place. Until then, color me sceptical on the controversy.

By the way, Muslim burial ritual has the person looking over their shoulder, so a NE orientiation of the plot is correct. I was flummoxed on the NE bit until I caught that point in the news story.

7:39 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Who cares where they're looking as long as it's a dead mohammedan?

Yes, our cemetaries go back considerably further than the mid-1800s. They go back for 2,000 years.

"As for facing them, does any one know whether the Brits bury their dead facing the sky like we do?" As this is a British blog, yes, we do know our own funeral customs. (A visitor from LGF, perchance? Most welcome!) We don't think of people as "facing the sky". Christians are buried lying on their backs, usually with their hands placed together in prayer or their arms folded piously.

8:17 pm  
Blogger DFH said...

Regardless of which direction other religions choose to face their dead, the important point here is that Nottingham City Council picked Mecca as its default setting.

9:03 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

dfh - Precisely.

I further predict if these people continue their breeding habits, we will run out of cemetaries to bury them "according to their custom" (like we give a crap; the custom of the Neanderthals seems to have been throwing bodies in swamps and I don't see any fault with it), they will make new by-laws that Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, agnostics and atheists can no longer be buried and must be cremated in order for the mohammedans to follow their religion.

9:13 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

On the other hand, the transplant industry may have gained absolute right of domain over corpses for purposes of cannibalisation by then.

9:15 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wouldn't mind facing Meca as long as you plant me so my ass faces that way.

9:50 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think most people are cremated these days. Not sure about Muslims though - someone told me that it was against their religion but I can't confirm that.

9:50 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Baloney: Mecca is in a lower parallel than Jerusalem. You cannot bury someone "East towards Jerusalem" and "Northeast towards Mecca" from Nottingham or anywhere else in the world other point in the world.

This sounds more like neocon misinformation.

10:03 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding: can Muslims be cremated?
It is acceptable as long as they are flying airplanes into buildings full of infidels.

10:05 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Anonymous 10:05 - I believe it is also acceptable in the instance of accidental incineration while burning a foreign flag or an effigy of a Christian religious figure.

10:13 pm  
Anonymous Dusty said...

Verity, I did not know this was a Brit blog. If I had I would have phrased the question you answer, differently. But it is good to know that you "know your own funeral customs". My point, not knowing that it was a British blog, was to ascertain from someone familiar with Brit customs, whether there was some part of Christian ritual that I was unaware of, specifically, that which would account for and make accurate a "facing east" assertion which is belied by the randonmess of plot orientations I saw in photos of British cemeteries and normally discussed in this manner.

That you folks, like we folks over here, don't think of it as "facing the sky" seems reasonable. I was being facetious. We don't either and I probably should have put that part in quotes. Anyway, if the randomness of the plots don't address the "Christians are buried facing east" (in the context that William Durandus, medieval Christian scribe, notes, "A man ought so to be buried that while his head lies to the West his feet are turned to the East, for thus he prays as it were by his very position and suggests that he is ready to hasten from the West to the East.") and the position of the head of the corpse doesn't account for it either, I have to ask, what the heck does "facing east" mean?

I do appreciate you letting me know your cemeteries go back much further than the 1800's. I'd never have known that you folks had been burying your dead for that long. Yeah, I did come by via the LGF link, though I am not a regular there. And thanks for the welcome, but your response hardly makes it seem that way.

As for your first comment line, Mohammedans care where they are looking. From your comments, it appears the evidence from Britain comports, like ours in the US, with an acknowledgement that Christians aren't buried in any manner that might hint to "facing east" to any degree of regularity or insistence that the Mohammedans do and our Christian ritual has been pretty much been put to the dustbin of history.

So, now it strongly seems that this is a faux controversy, but still, maybe Nottinghamers are the exception, and still strongly adhere to the Christian ritual. In that case, more power to them in lodging complaint.

10:17 pm  
Anonymous Dusty said...

"Regardless of which direction other religions choose to face their dead, the important point here is that Nottingham City Council picked Mecca as its default setting."

DFH, your default orientation is an entirely reasonable argument considering current social tensions. My complaint was that the argument put forward in the news report was specious, particularly as it is read as though the "facing east" was pretty well regimented tradition. One doesn't argue a position on a premise that is so eaily proven incorrect because it makes it all that much harder to win.

10:36 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

I don't know about all Christians as the Roman Catholic Church has its own traditions. Someone wrote that a lot of the churches on the Continent face east. Maybe because the sun rises in the east and signals a new day and new hope. That's a guess. I don't think it's a British custom.

As to why the mohammedans are planted facing East (or whatever), who knows?

You write, Dusty, "So, now it strongly seems that this is a faux controversy,". Why? Why is it controversial to be bloody angered that some twerpy little unelected official, trying to ingratiate himself with a bunch of primitives who worship a repellent god, decrees that the religious practices of 15% of Nottingham's population are henceforth to take precedence over the age-old traditions of the indigenes?

This is the entire point of the post. Dhimmitude alert.

People guilty of dhimmitude should get the birch.

10:39 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

duty - Forgive me if I appear to be picking on you, but you refer to "social tensions". I don't know whether there are any mohammedan-indigenous social tensions in Nottingham, but that is not the point.

The point is a little unelected twerp has taken it upon himself to elevate the needs of the islamics over the native British population. If you read the piece, you will see that this was done without consulting any mohammedans. The mohammedans, when asked, in fact said that they naturally supported "200%" the right of British people to be buried according to their ancient customs.

The point here is dhimmitude, which seems to have missed by many point-scorers above discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Dhimmitude.

10:50 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Britain is Lost.

It's once great culture is being voluntarily lost by a death-cult-apologist society-of-cowards.

Go ahead an replace your Christian country with a Islamic one.

The last one out shut the light off.

12:48 am  
Blogger Jack Bauer said...

I'm shocked.

I had always assumed muslims were buried the same way they prayed.

Face in the dirt, arse in the air.

1:28 am  
Blogger jeff nolan said...

My vote would be to bury them face up so that when the lads have a couple of pints in them they can... well you get the point.

1:29 am  
Anonymous Verity said...

anonymous 12:48 You should have something more original to say than a hippie invocation from the Viet Nam days - "would the last one to leave please turn out the light". I don't even understand it.

If there was no one there - as in, everyone had left, there'd be no one for the electicity company to bill, would there? So why turn off the effin' light?

This is the po-faced lecturing that normal people have a bit of a larff with.

However, Anonymous, all is not lost. We still have our punctuation. It's not it's; it's its.

1:31 am  
Anonymous Demosthenes said...

No way, they won't take me alive nor dead either. I don't live there but I would take any means necessary.

2:26 am  
Anonymous Verity said...

Thank you, demosthenes. We appreciate it.

3:25 am  
Anonymous Verity said...

And very well-articulated, if I may say so.

3:51 am  
Blogger IMAFreethinker said...

Ah, seems to most of us here in the U.S. that it doesn't matter in which direction one buries a Muslim just as long as he is, indeed, buried and the sooner, the better.

3:51 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this really about dhimmitude? Or is it more likely a case of a Council composed of staunch secular-rationalists who've concluded that "for the saner among us, it simply doesn't matter which direction a corpse is layed; they're DEAD. So if those crazy Muslims can be placated -- and if it makes them vote for us next time -- why not give them what they want? And if a Christian complains, who cares? They're crazy too, but more to the point, there aren't enough of them to put us out of office."

-- Clioman

1:47 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Clioman writes, re someone's imagined thoughts about Christians: "They're crazy too, but more to the point, there aren't enough of them to put us out of office."

The mohammedan population of Nottingham is 15%. Still way too many, but it leaves 85% of the population to vote him out.

3:11 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Slightly o/t

I read somewhere that hotel rooms in the middle east all have a pointer showing the way to Mecca. I heard some guy saying that before checking out he would always move the pointer. Respect!

3:14 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Well, er, the pointer is painted on the ceiling, so "some guy" would not have been able to move it. But still, respect for the idea.

3:44 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've worked extensively in the middle east and can confirm that the pointer to Mecca is as common there as Gideons is (was?) here. However, I have never seen one that was movable. It might be inlaid on the bedside table or on the window sill. Incidentally, the reason there is no Koran (cf Gideons) is because non believers are not supposed to handle Korans. Even in fairly liberal countries like UAE, the book shops will not let anyone but a Muslim handle the Koran. Odd really because they are aware that Korans are freely sold in the West.

10:35 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

Makes you just want to grab a koran and sit on it, doesn't it?

11:54 pm  
Blogger Myrddin Wen said...

Surely most indigenous UK people couldn't care less on the actual grave orientation, once planted in the ground, parallel parked or indeed crematus, one's earthly remains are there really as a focal point of rememberance for those still alive, those who care anyway.

When one is made aware however, pre tempus mortem, that one is to be aligned, as a matter of landscape tidiness you understand, with mecca, most normal ( non jihadi mentalis ) people would pause, take a breath thru the teeth, 'well, now you mention it old chap...er.'.

So, is it some kind of last-chance attempt to impose islam post mortem or a veiled threat to the pre mortem ( you may as well accept it now 'cos we'll get you when you're dead and have no say in the matter you fucker ), or both?

Anyway, burial alignment is utterly ridiculus as long as the enchanted moonlight rays of the Goddess Ceridwen can touch your resting place...

There's also a lot to be said of the spectacle of a burning ship pushed out to sea.

1:53 am  
Anonymous Verity said...

"There's also a lot to be said of the spectacle of a burning ship pushed out to sea."

D'accord Myrddin Wen, especially if it had 1,000 mohammedans aboard. Wooo hooooo!

(With the rider that it be a long way out to sea before anyone thought to notify any rescue services. Well, actually, with the rider that it had actually sunk before anyone thought to notify any rescue services ...). Why take chances?

2:56 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If anybody's interested, Steve Dowling's email address is -

steve.dowling@nottinghamcity.gov.uk

(Try to keep it civil)"

Oh yes, I'm keeping it civil alright...

I'm busy typing Steve's name into every single one of those 'Unsubscribe Me' links I see in the spam e-mails I receive...

10:11 am  
Anonymous Verity said...

anonymous 10:11 - What a charming idea!

1:00 pm  
Anonymous Verity said...

I wrote to ol' Steve Dhimmi this morning, and I also thoughtfully sent an email to the editor of the Nottingham paper that broke the story. I let the editor know that this Dowling's email address had appeared on blogs in Britain and the United States. I thought it might merit a phone call from the paper and keep things stirred up.

2:52 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well done Steve 'Dhimmi'.

If Jews and Christians can't be arsed being buried the right way, why slag off Muslims?

Makkah, here we come.

7:18 pm  
Anonymous verity said...

anonymous 7:18 - in your dreams, you slimey little adherent of an abnormal religion with a deeply abnormal paedophile prophet.

Yes, Inayat, I'm looking at you. Unless you're otherwise engaged at at a disco with a very happy disposition on Charing X Road?

3:08 am  
Anonymous verity said...

I WANT AN APOLOGY!

I want an apology from mohammedans for their "men" taking sex slaves from the age of six! I am a woman! I am a favoured group of the Left, and I want an APOLOGY!

If they refuse, I will take my demands to the United States or the ECHR, because I want an APOLOGY for 1200 years of the victimisation and murder of little girls.

I WANT AN APOLOGY! I WANT A PUBLIC APOLOGY FROM SOME IMAN SHIT or other "HOLY MAN" shit. On tape!

I want Saudi Arabia to apologise for keeping slaves sleeping under the kitchen table until this very day - and all over the world, but they hide it. I WANT AN APOLOGY!

Bill Clinton: Can you negotiate an apology for me on behalf of everyone with ovaries and a vagina for 1200 years of insane victimisation? OK, Bill's not the right guy to approach. (How's Chelsea? Not an "intern" in France or Germany is she?)

JIMMUH CAHDUH - can you negotiate an APOLOGY for the behaviour of these desert rats for 1200 years?

But, Jimmuh, Bill! You've apologised to everyone else on the planet without the permission of those guilty without trial (and with a total ignorance of history - Bill, Jimmuh, Tonee - the three musqueeters fighting for any race or nationality not their own!

We shouldn't forget that Jimmuh graduated 41st out of a class of 42. It's important to remember that. I wonder how No 42 ended up - legislate on swimming hours for muslims in municipal, taxpayer paid for swimming pools?

3:29 am  

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